Hack Attack 2008 — Week 7 — This Dragon All Bluster
By weekend hacker
Dragon's Fire #15
Course: Dragonsfire Golf Club, Carlisle ON
Date: June 6th, 2008
Weather: A humid balmy 32deg, breezy
Green fees: $79
Tees used: Blues, Rating * 72.8, Slope 132, Yardage 6639
Score Shot: 98 (*t.b.d. by GAO)
Time taken: 4hours, 35 minutes
Dragon's Fire #4
The Course
The long awaited opening. Originally slated to possibly open either late last yr or by May of 2008 was scrapped with a June opening announced. We were excited to head out to unknown territories. Often you can play a course you’ve never played before, but one that no-one else has is a special treat (Or is it?). The website informs you that Bryan Decunha previously constructed Royal Ontario and is also a long time member of two prestigious GTA golf courses. With that in mind he wanted to meet his lifelong goal of…”building a ‘no compromise’ high end golf facility to cater to public golfers at all levels, at a reasonable price”. We’ll see how close he did, or did not come.
Goat Track or Weekend in Paradise?: Well the first impression was not great as the site map is not very detailed, nor are there directions. Click on link for a detailed map and you receive a course in Negaunee Michigan? A phone call to the friendly and helpful pro shop attendant and we were guided to the front gates. That is where we were met with quite a sight. The front gates were almost completely blocked by construction equipment and workers. We had to wait for exiting vehicles to make it thru the single small opening. We parked next a tent that is used for eating (eating what? I am not sure, get to that later). Immediately upon exiting our vehicle a friendly young man pulled up in a shuttle and offered to drive us down to the temporary proshop. He was considerate in not rushing us and allowing us to grab our things, put on shoes etc. At the proshop we discovered the price for ‘newness’. $79 for green fee. With my constant rough price point target of $75 and under (no small feat in the GTA) I had thought I squeaked under at $74 on website. Alas taxes are added and come close to $79. Walkable but in hot conditions we quickly found out sharing a cart was $40. Hmm? A little pricey for area and conditions so far but lets hit the practice facilities. We are informed politely (darn if those staff are all so happy) it is $9 for that. Saving our few remaining dollars for an icy cold beer on this very high temp day (40 with humidex) we decided to putt and chip. How new? How ready is this course? This was the chipping green area.
Hole one was a very easy par 4 and was the only fairway on the course with good turf. Not quite lush, but I did manage to hit my approach shot fat with a soft muddy splat. It was not representative of the hard pan fairways to come. Take a look below though at the tee blocks. With 6, count em 6 tee blocks ranging from the reds at 5075 yards to the blacks at 7212 you can choose your poison. Well let me clarify, you have some choice. To ensure speed of play the blacks are limited to single digit handicappers and must have proshop approval before round.
It was on the first hole we discovered something that would be the forbearer of doom for us. The greens. A gentleman in my group was first to putt facing a 15 ft downhill putt. The ball went 5 feet. Shocked at how slow it was, he was still away. Another stroke, he was still 3 feet away. The greens alone were a sign this course should not be open. We were forced even on short putts to ‘slap’ at the ball. There was no skill involved, just whack it. Pull your hair out….frustrating!
The first hole that stood out was the 5th . This par 4 according to the scorecard was the toughest handicap. Based on the photo below you can see what we saw, not much extraordinary. What was hidden to all but the course designer was behind the row of trees on right side of fairway. These we clearly saw must be faded around or cleared over. We all succeeded only to find as we moved onto fairway that an open space beyond those initial trees had another grouping of trees jutting out on right. So our nicely played tee shots around first grouping had landed in or just behind the next. Scorecards do not show this so we grumbled our way onto and off this hole.
At this point the heat and humidity had taken its toll. We had previously waved away the cart girl and now we welcomed her. An icy cold beer is a Canadian golfer’s reward on a day like this. We asked for the pricing and varieties and she answered “I’m not sure what they carry”. Huh?..we were then informed the course did not take the appropriate steps to obtain a liquor license. Even with all the delays in opening this was not done. Sigh. At least the under construction patio looks nice with high backed Adirondack chairs. The 9th was a pretty little par 3 over water. A double check on food, beverage and alcohol at a little hut determined chips and water were as exotic as it got. Take note though of the cool touches on course identification below.
It was on the back we discovered a Jekyll and Hyde complex.
Hole 13 (i.e. Mr. Hyde) is an uphill 600 yard (blues) par 5. Yikes! Your tee shot is mainly blind as you hit over a hill with only the scorecard to give you and idea of where to hit. Our grouping hit a few nice drives only to have found trouble. Friendly Dr. Jekyll comes into play on the following 15th hole which is a downhill par 4 of only 292 yards. Guarded by sand on front right but otherwise you can be on or close in 1 shot. After a kick in the pants on 13 and a nice hug on 15, you then face the 16th. Another blind tee shot par 5, this time 544 yards and once again mostly uphill.
Dragon's Fire #2
The finish was at least well thought out. The 17th is a par 3 of 149 yards that almost plays as an island green. The green itself shoots out from the hill on left, moving out to the right with water in front, on right side and behind. The target looks awfully small from tee blocks but is wider than it looks. (See below)
The par 5 finishing hole is 500 yards shaped like a banana. Water and sand along your right, a fade is the shot of choice. For a draw player like myself, you had better have confidence in aiming out over the water to hit the fairway. Reasonable long hitters can hit green in two, avg players should still have a fair task of obtaining par.
In summary, the course owner has been quoted as saying he wanted to build a course for the average masses. He did not want to overly penalize. If kept in play the avg golfer stands a chance of scoring well. However I am not exactly sure where blind uphill 500+ par 5′s fit into that? We did all find the rough overly penal. Any ball just barely off the fairway was often impossible to find (Even better players need to bring extra ammo). Two funny things: #1. I had one of my best ball striking days yet due to balls rolling off fairway I added a dozen strokes to my typical score. #2. I found on average two balls per look in rough, but sadly they were never mine. A sign of what the golfers before me experienced.
How the Rock Rolls: The course opened with greens that are below acceptable for now and likely this entire season. Have you ever played a course where you came upon an unexpected temporary green with a flag stuck in middle of fairway? That is the putting equivalent of every single green at Dragons Fire.
Conditioning: As mentioned in beginning the conditions are not great. Not just the greens but many fairways are hard pan and need more conditioning. I will acknowledge the exceptional sand. Blinding white and as soft as talcum powder.
Making the Cut: At essentially $100 for green fee and cart you are bringing an awful lot of other courses into the equation. Nearby crosswinds is in exactly the same price range and offers superior conditions for the same price. Many area courses are half to 2/3rds the price. This area of Burlington/Oakville features an above average income base who will readily pay a premium for quality conditions and facilities. I honestly feel had this course advertised the below grade conditions at half the price for this entire season, they would attract a lot of golfers who would return the good will by giving the course another chance next season. For this golfer (include my playing partner and the two strangers paired with) we felt it unacceptable to have paid the price we did. It is quite clear an influx of income was needed rather than waiting until the course deserved the price charged, or reducing price to match the conditions. Abysmal greens, ok conditions, no liquor license, under construction food and patio facilities do not deserve full pop.
Hacker’s Highlights: The consistently friendly staff is all I can highlight.
Hit To Your Pocketbook:
Walking $79, power carts $40 extra per two-some.
Hacking Away: 50%
At half the price it might have matched up with the rushed conditions.
August 28th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
I have played Dragon’s Fire 3 times already this year, and expect to play it again. Aside from the comments about the slow greens and lack of liquor license, I am in ZERO agreement with the comments above.
I find Dragon’s Fire to be challenging, but not overly so. All 3 of my rounds have been in the high 80′s, my usual average. Conditions have been fantastic, save the green speed. I have not seen a single fairway in rough shape, or a single hardpan area. With all the rain this summer, that is nearly impossible. The course itself is gorgeous – cut from a former tree farm, it has the feel of a 20-year-old course, not a brand new track. The prices are absolutely reasonable – $55 off-prime. I dare anyone to find a similar course in the area for a similar price. The hacker is looking at the wrong list of comparables if he thinks $100 is too much – where he can find a course near Carlisle for half or 2/3 the price is beyond me, unless you want to go severely down-market to Burlington Springs or Carlisle.
My take – go play Dragon’s Fire. It’s a beauty if you expect and welcome a tough challenge instead of whining about lack of beer and long par-5′s.
August 29th, 2008 at 12:54 am
Courses in the same area for half or two thirds the price….crosswinds..carlisle….willow valley….copetown..mystic….etc etc.
It is possible that the rough conditions may have improved but remember? A review is the conditions that day, which was first week of june, not after 3 mths of rain. Were your 3 rounds as early as June 6th?
Not suprising though that even you admit the greens continue to be very slow.
I guess they are only used 18 times a round and that an enjoyable round of putting with decent speeds is not at the top of your list…but to the people i met and played with that day (and continue to hear from in present) without that it is just not golf. It becomes a higher grade of driving range practice if the other half i.e. putting is not enjoyable.
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Ummm….interesting math.
Friday Rates, including cart:
Crosswinds – $98
Willow Valley – $96
Dragon’s Fire – $92
Mystic – $85
Copetown – $80
Carlisle – $67
So, where is the two-thirds to half?
Crosswinds and Willow Valley are easily the most overpriced on that list – neither are anything to write home about, particularly Crosswinds. I think when the owners first sat down with the architect, they must have asked him to “design the flattest, straightest course possible. Oh, and throw in an island green for the kitsch factor.”
Copetown is a pasture. Who would pay that kind of money to play something so unimaginative? Especially when a good chunk of the course is directly under high-tension wires?
Carlisle is a joke – it’s basically an executive course. I can find courses for $30 where my driver stays in the bag for 90% of the round.
Mystic is the only one on that list truly worthy of the rates, and this is the first year that statement can be made. It’s nice to finally see it in good condition, but there are zero amenities there as well.
Dragon’s Fire is far from perfect, but it fits into it’s price category properly in my mind. You obviously expected far too much from a first-year course. As for your comments about waiting for construction crews at the front gate, or there not being any beer – those are the sourest of sour grapes. Are you there to golf, or to nitpick every last detail? Your point on the greens is absolutely valid – but give them a break until the course grows in a bit.
I played it again this past Saturday, and once again it was a great round. Tough, tricky, well conditioned…..and they’re serving beer now and the front gate is complete. Maybe you should give it another chance, on a day when you don’t wake up so grumpy.
September 2nd, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Rob, i won’t go into replying to specific items in your comments. They border on annoying, insulting and smugness. So I pass. I will comment on your math. I would like to introduce you to something called “Not Paying Regular Rates”. This is how it goes. For example.
I log onto lastminutegolfer and I book a round at willow valley for $50 bucks including power cart, no fees, no catch. Its called not just walking up and paying full pop. (lets do the math, dragons fire $100 including cart and WV at $50. I do believe…carry the 1…we are at 50%).
Lets do carlisle….try joining their email club….I receive offers regularly to pay well below posted rates…currently I can pay $57 to play….hmm..(lets do the math, that would be a bit below two-thirds the price of DF).
Lets take copetown….as a member of TGN i.e. Toronto golf nuts I regularly see special offers from CT…playing twice already this season at a rate of $55 with free range.
Lets take mystic….oh heck….i think you get the point…
PS if you need help buying your next car just let me know…continuing to pay that sticker on the window is not good finances………….
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:03 am
Then, pray tell, why were you complaining about the rates in the first place if you KNEW going in you were going to be paying full freight?
I’m also a member on lastminutegolfer, so try to lighten up on the pontificating.
September 3rd, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Rob, I do not see it as complaining. I see it as going into the round that day expecting conditions to match the price. The rainy spring/summer may have improved the fairways for your rounds but any round is a ‘snapshot’. My snapshot was spotty hardpan and excruciating greens. If a course expects you to wait for decent greens, i expect them to reduce the price.
Pipers Heath is a prime example of how to open with decent greens and discounted prices. Now established, the greens are even better and with full tee sheets they no longer need to discount. I found the greens so unbearably bad I question why other courses can open with decent speeds (no not perfect..but decent).
In your first reply to me, you obviously had better (later) rounds and feel it is worth the money. That is fine. Your comments included choices of words that for my experience that were not necessary.
However I hope others take time to post their opinions. I personally have met people who hated it, found most holes forgettable and greens extremely slow…yet others say it is ok as it at least is a new option for the area. We each have our opinions and does make one over the other right.
Ponitificating is defintely over for me and if we meet at the turn the beers on me.
March 12th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Speaking of Ontario:
The people of Ontario would condemn George W. Bush’s hate crimes.
George W. Bush is a raging racist.
George W. Bush committed hate crimes of epic proportions and with the stench of terrorism (indicated in my blog).
George W. Bush did in fact commit innumerable hate crimes.
And I do solemnly swear by Almighty God that George W. Bush committed other hate crimes of epic proportions and with the stench of terrorism which I am not at liberty to mention.
Many people know what Bush did.
And many people will know what Bush didâ€â€even to the end of the world.
Bush was absolute evil.
Bush is now like a fugitive from justice.
Bush is a psychological prisoner.
Bush has a lot to worry about.
Bush can technically be prosecuted for hate crimes at any time.
In any case, Bush will go down in history in infamy.
Respectfully Submitted by Andrew Yu-Jen Wang
B.S., Summa Cum Laude, 1996
Messiah College, Grantham, PA
Lower Merion High School, Ardmore, PA, 1993
(I can type 90 words per minute. In only 7 days, posts basically like this post of mine have come into existenceâ€â€all over the Internet (hundreds of copies). One can go to Google USA right now, type “George W. Bush committed hate crimes of epic proportions and with the stench of terrorism,†hit “Enter,†and find more than 350 copies indicating the content of this post. All in all, there are probably more than 1,000 copies on the Internet indicating the content of this postâ€â€it has practically become headline news. One cannot be too dedicated when it comes to anti-Bush activities. As I looked back at my good computer work, I thought how fun and easy it was to do it.)
“GEORGE W. BUSH IS THE WORST PRESIDENT IN U.S. HISTORY†BLOG OF ANDREW YU-JEN WANG
_________________
I am not sure where I had read it before, but anyway, it goes kind of like this: “If only it were possible to ban invention that bottled up memories so they never got stale and faded.†Oh waitâ€â€off the top of my headâ€â€I think it came from my Lower Merion High School yearbook.